This post was guest blogged by Dan Tanner of dan-ruth-tanner.com
I’ve just read an excellent article by Miss Laurelle JnoBaptiste over at The Dominican - another Web site devoted to news about Dominica. The article provokes the following thoughts from me.The reader should know this about me: My wife and I are white Americans. Her family’s history in America dates back to 1620, while I am the American-born child of immigrants. We are in our 60s and retired. We have been coming to Dominica since 1987 and four years ago we bought a small plot of land and have built a home there. We will retire to live in that home later this year. My background is as a scientist, and I had been active in the civil rights and anti-war movements in the US.
Ms. JnoBaptiste wrote
Because Dominica was, and continues to be, a very patriarchal society, I understood that my job options would be limited to clerical roles such as those performed by a bank teller, or a teacher.
My thought on that is that it’s very regrettable that Dominica apparently does not offer women the same rights it does to men. Unfortunately, that is the case in many societies, often bolstered by some basis in religious teaching or doctrine. We have one child, a daughter, and were adamant in ensuring that she was allowed to fulfill her potential. Alas, we couldn’t always get that result, but she’s come pretty close.
She also wrote
Consequently, I, along with the majority of others, associated the priest with the image of Jesus Christ - and that made him a superior being. By extension, anyone who looked like the priest and Jesus Christ were considered superior beings.
My reaction is that I continue to be amazed that so many victims of religious education think that Jesus would have looked European. He was a Jewish carpenter and would lave looked Semitic; with a fairly dark complexion and hair and brown eyes, not light-skinned with light hair and blue eyes. Not that it matters – religion is nonsense and stifles inquiry and knowledge into anything that challenges its made-up doctrines.
She also wrote that
the education and socialization that I received in Dominica prepared me to take my place in a global society where my history and ancestors are viewed as second class to that of the Anglo Saxon or European history and ancestry.
Yes, racism exists and is often still practiced. However, racism is also a cover-up for exclusion based on economic or other privilege. It exists in every society, and is not peculiar to the Black/Anglo-Saxon relationship. In Vietnam, the lighter-skinned general population discriminated against the darker-skinned minority people from the hill country. In India, the skin-color caste system is still a horror and a scourge. I can only hope that people of all color will stop and think about what’s inside others – their character – before making false judgments based on skin color.
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Problem with education in Dominica refers back to the continuous cycle of many educated, but selfish Dominicans who further their education in the rest of the world and never return to their country and invest in its future. But one would fine that they are the first people to complain about Dominica.
To you Mr Tanner from the USA, please remember that this island is predominantly Christian Catholics, Adventist etc..We do believe in God. I believe knowledge makes one better able to read the bible or be religious and be able to sieve through what’s good and what’s bad.
As for racism I agree with you, its everywhere.
The bible has some good things, such as the “Golden Rule”.
But it is full of errors (such as giving the ratio of a circumference to a diameter as 3). You don’t even have to challenge the bible for errors based on outside knowledge. The book of Genesis gives two different creation accounts (and neither creates the sun before creating light!) and two gospels in the new testament give different numbers of generations and different names in recounting the ancestry of Jesus.
If you believe “every word in the bible” how can you deal with the bible’s own contradictions, let alone its nonsense such the wrong value for pi, the existence of witches, etc?
In my experience, those who claim to believe in the bible absolutely have not read it.
I have a younger sister named Naomi. A friend’s mother claimed to have read and memorized the bible. She told me that Naomi was “an Indian name, and not a name in the bible”. I told her that she was named after Naomi in the book of Ruth, but she denied that there was any such name in the bible. The simple fact was that she was either illiterate or had not read the bible as she claimed.
I unlike Ms. JnoBaptiste, did not experience this form of education in Dominica. I was raised by two strong and well educated parents both trained in Europe, United States and Canada.
I am currently living in North America and I have pursued a path where there are not many females, far less Afro-Caribbean females.
At the high school level in Dominica, I took CXC history and focused on African history and the slave trade, my history teacher (exceptional) did not bestow on us this notion that Anglo-Saxons were better than us. As a result I did not suffer from any inferiority complex.
We have to take Ms. JnoBaptiste’s account as a personal one and not the norm in Dominica.
I attended a Catholic high school and I am Catholic. I also agree that there is racism in the world but we should not let that affect our view of our world and our ‘place’ in it.
She was educated in Dominica and you were not, so I think that her experience is more representative of what’s typical.
I was educated in Dominica. Just like her, I left Dominica after the CDCC (Clifton Dupigny Community College) to pursue my Bachelor’s degree in North America.
We went to different high schools but the same college. We obviously had different experiences in Dominica. Most of my friends with whom I attended high school and college in Dominica did not identify with her story.
no one said the bible is the honest truth, I don’t hold the bible like it is golden . Man wrote the bible and even though we would like to believe that everything in it is what god wants it is not. But my point is don’t try to persuade people that it is almost wrong to believe in god and be religious.
I think that it’s marvelous that you recognize that men wrote the bible. Men create their own gods too. All sorts of religions have their “sacred” books, each contending that they were written by the one “true” god.
I find it amazing that so many people who are descended from those who were kidnapped and enslaved embrace the religion of the slave-masters. They did the same when the ancient Greeks and later the Romans enslaved them, and those were different gods.
As far as I’m concerned, as long as people respect one another, I don’t care what they believe, or that they understand that I have no belief in anything supernatural at all.
its not marvelous for me mr tanner that i recognize that man wrote the bible. I think only idiots would think otherwise. its okay for people to have a religion and for others to respect that they do. What not okay is for others to try to tell them that their beliefs are not warranted. religion of slave masters? mmmh …well why should i listen to you?, when you are white man a descendant of people who enslaved blacks like me. I should not believe or make my own presumptions even if it came from whites like you who enslaved my ancestors. I do everyday I seat in American classes listening and sieving through what’s good and what’s bad. A place where one is continously brainwashed to believe in the so called American Dream. Where you are only taught how to continue to lie to get ahead in business. I don’t mean to get to nasty here, but it is wrong for you to tell someone that their beliefs are not warranted, even if it came from your ancestors who enslaved blacks like me. I’m taught by white people whole day all day, in the end I know that its their belief and I take whatever is necessary for me to form my own. I believe in god and many Dominicans do. Many of us pray and celebrate his name in our own way. The clues are there, god is not a religion of people who enslaved us. Today we still continuosly enslaved by people using the past to get us to believe what they want.
My ancestors did not enslave anyone. My ancestors were themselves enslaved. And later, many of the people I come from, including many in my family, were murdered by the descendants of the slave-masters. You see, I am descended from Jews, who were enslaved by Africans (in Egypt), by Middle-Easterners (in Babylonia, now called Iraq), and murdered by nazis (in Germany and European lands the nazis held).
There are idiots and charlatans in the US who go around preaching that the bible is the literal word of god. In a Republican presidential candidate debate recently an Internet caller held up a bible and demanded to know if the candidates “believed every word in it”. They outdid one another to claim they did. That is despite the fact that our Constitution states that “there shall be no religious test to hold office in the United States” and despite the fact that in the US all beliefs (including no belief) are supposed to be equal, tolerated, and nobody’s business other than one’s own. Money has corrupted our system, and the American dream, other than the potential to get rich (if you’re willing to lie, cheat, and steal from others), is pretty much dead.
And, by the way, the bible has some good advice: The last 5 of the 10 Commandments (which deal with how people should behave with people; not kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet), the Golden Rule (love your neighbor as yourself), and the one that advises relevant to this discussion — not to blame children for what may have been the sins of their fathers.
Not only did my ancestors not enslave or murder anyone, but also, I would be perfectly innocent even if they had. I have never enslaved or harmed others. I risked my life during the American civil rights movement to bring an end to racial segregation and to bring about equal voting rights.
Heather, thank you for clearing that up.
I’m actually writing because I spotted this great news! —
Ed. Minister Vince Henderson expressed gratitude for 127 computers given to primary schools. A 14-seater bus was also given, under the USAID funded project. Source: DBS Radio
Someone’s belief is their belief and whether you believe in it or not you should not take it upon yourself to tell someone different. I don’t believe in atheisism, but I won’t tell someone its wrong to believe that way. I think that you have a great influence on people opinion. You are a degreed professional, let people believe in what they want to believe. And yes most definitely many of the rules in the bible are good to use when one is living their own life. Governments make laws after many of the rules from the bible. Again I never said it was golden, But like everything else you take what you want to take from it. Let other people form their own opinions, even if its from as you said “from people who enslaved blacks like me.” I went to an all girls catholic school all my life and I loved it. There were prejudices, but I love the foundation I got, because it enables me to sit in American classes and weed out some of the ridiculous teachings that they give to people. I work hard at tests and do well because everything is multiple choice up here, which doesn’t encourage much thought. But I refer that to the great foundation I got from Catholic school and a Dominican school for that matter.
I am very glad that you’ve gotten and made good use of a good education.
I am not trying to spread atheism, but only asserting the same right to speak about my atheism as believers and missionaries claim to spread their beliefs. I only challenge religious beliefs when they harm others, such as teaching children in school creation myths and when religious laws are used to persecute people (it doesn’t happen in Dominica, but in the Mideast girls are being mutilated, people are being stoned and/or lashed for “immodesty” and for “insulting religion”, etc).
In human history, humans are the only beings fully aware of their own mortality. Thus, in every culture, some religion came about to explain mortality away: eternal life, reincarnation, etc. With that came power to the shamans. Not wanting to lose power, the shamans suppress any knowledge that shows them to be wrong about any dogma.
And some people will believe anything — such as the writings of a science-fiction author or the rantings of a psychotic farmer. Moreover, most people can’t break free of their childhood indoctrination.
well i dispute a “good education” if its lie, cheat, steal or simply know how to work a multiple choice question, but its okay. Wasn’t sent here by choice, so I deal with it until its over. but i won’t comment further if thats your belief go on spread it all over Dominica. I believe that my people are smart and they make their own choices. But the problem is many Americans always complain about immigrants changing their society, this is ironic when everywhere Americans go they try to change other societies. As I said you are a degreed professional, if you want to teach atheisim go ahead, but why don’t you also teach all the skills that you know like engineering, physics, mathematics etc. With all due respect, blogging won’t help the cause. We need teachers in schools and especially in the college. I’m sure that they would appreciate someone with your skills at the College. Teach everything!
Thank you. There is much we agree on. I have been teaching science voluntarily when I’m in Dominica, and plan to offer to do so for children and adults, voluntarily for free in science, math, and literacy help. I’ve brought a telescope to Dominica and have shown people the moon close-up, Mars, the moons of Jupiter, and the gas nebula in Orion so far; and I’ve explained day/night, the seasons, and the tides astronomically (to people who were actually taught in school that the stars were “diamonds placed in the sky by god”).
There is something else I’d like to comment on. I believe that racism is universal, but used by the rich and powerful to cover up what really matters to them: differences in wealth. It seems that way everywhere. And it is important to remember historical truths. For example, it was not only white people who made the trade in African slaves to the New World, but both white Christians, African Muslims, and African tribal chiefs. Sadly, tribal warfare is ongoing in Africa; one need only look at the Sudan/Darfur, Rwanda/Burundi, and Nigeria, Liberia (which while founded on an American model, failed badly), and Kenya.
It is greed that underlies racism; color is only a facade.
We should remember that human beings evolved in Africa and then populated the world, and that we have a common origin.
Laurelle’s assertion that the “glass ceiling” still looms over the head of the dominican woman is unequivocally absurd. Mamo, Doreen Paul, countless Permanent Secretaries, Medical professionals…dude. The fact is that quite the opposite is true. In dominica there are more women in more high paying jobs than there are men. It is not, I must say, due to some sort of matriarchal bias at work in dominican society eiher. The unfortunate fact is simply that the boys just don’t study. Tanners, I assure you, had your daughter grown up in Dominica, she would have suffered no hindrance derived from sexism. Word.
My piece.
Miguel Marie ‘Pun… I’ve edited your comment. Sorry, but Dominica-Weekly will not accept these types of comments. If it continues in future we will have no choice be to block you from making anymore comments.
Please keep all your comments practical and to the point.
Thank you!
Okay Mr Marie,
What is it that I have said that is ridiculous.
The fact that Dominica is predominantly Christian and that people should be allowed to form their own decisions without the likes of atheists bringing down their faith? Why judge what people believe, thats their own thoughts.
I’m a she and no i won’t reveal my identity because you are the one not reading my views to Mr.Tanner. I was responing to the article it self because I agree with you 100 per cent. That women in Dominica have all the rights a woman can have and they will have even more rights if they study work hard and of course don’t associate themselves with men like yourself.
Boldface Dominican… I’ve edited your comment. Please keep all your comments practical and to the point.
Thank you!
pratical okay chris, do you think that Miguel is practical? Mr Tanner and I commented back forth, we made our point, but there were no bashing. This wannabee rasta wants to come on here and call me an embarassment, for supporting the same thoughts he has expressed. This is not a fair forum and you may delete my entry or block me at anytime.
Boldface Dominican… I told Miguel Marie ‘Pun’ the samething I told you. Please don’t get personal with your comments….ok:smile: